 Babs
|
| Certified Headhunter |
| Total Posts: 101 |
| Joined: Sep 2007 |
| |
|
I want to tell those of you with elderly parents what just happened to my father-in-law. He is a well-educated, sophisticated 88-year-old gentleman who has lived in the Chicago area his entire adult life. He made his living in the financial services arena and has always been very conservative both personally and financially. His wife of 63 years died about three years ago; he sold his home in March and moved into a retirment community in the northern suburbs.
He somehow met a 41-year-old woman - he does not remember where he met her, but we suspect it was at his new retirment home. In the past month, she has taken him for about $500,000. He bought her an Audi S5 convertible, a Corvette, a $58,000 watch, wrote her a personal check for $150,000, among other things. As soon as we became aware of this woman and the unusual activity in his bank account, we contacted the police, who have been very helpful, but it was too little, too late.
We know who she is, and she and her accomplice both have long criminal records. The police think she is part of a ring that preys on the elderly, but unfortunately, there is no way to prosecute her since she took my father-in-law with her to make the purchases and he signed the receipts and provided ID. He was allowed to charge well beyond the supposed limits on his credit cards and is fully liable for all the purchases. His banker, who has known him for years and who also knows my husband well (my husband has power of attorney for his father's accounts and handled his recent closing) said gee, she meant to call us about the money my father-in-law was spending, but she had misplaced my husband's card. The same banker arranged for the checks for the Corvette and the Audi knowing the title was going to a third party. My father-in-law remembers very little of the purchases, but says when he does remember buying the woman anything, he thought it was just little trinkets. He has been tested for dementia and comes through as perfectly normal. We suspect he may have been drugged before the shopping sprees. While none of us live in the same area as he, he has 5 children, all of whom are in frequent, if not daily, contact with him. This has happened so fast it makes my head spin.
Just a cautionary note - I don't know how this could have been avoided, but perhaps it could have been averted a bit earlier. |
|
|
|
 |
 polysena
|
|
| Total Posts: 577 |
| Joined: Nov 2007 |
| |
|
| I am so sorry to hear that Babs. A friend of my family got in trouble with some churning schemes.. I am training GI style because I want to go and punch the nose of this boutique guys :-)! |
Polysena and the world of finance (=B):
Polysena is out for a walk. She comes to a river and sees B on the opposite bank. 'Yoo-hoo!' she shouts, 'How can I get to the other side?'
B looks up the river then down the river and shouts back, 'You ARE on the other side.'
|
|
 |
 sfca
|
|
| Total Posts: 703 |
| Joined: May 2004 |
| |
|
| I think you may be giving up too easy. Talk to a lawyer. The compliance junk they make us sit through at my bank suggests that would have been red flagged internally, so I do not think they may be able to hide behind a claim of ignorance. The statement from that banker, I hope you got in email form, is especially damning. I am rather disappointed by behavior of both Bank of America and Morgan Stanley in our own situation of elderly parents but the dollars involved and situation was not worth pursuing. Your numbers are definitely high enough to pursue. |
|
|
|
 |
 Babs
|
| Certified Headhunter |
| Total Posts: 101 |
| Joined: Sep 2007 |
| |
|
| Unfortunately, the statement from the banker was verbal. We also think there should be some liability for the retirement home, since the woman was allowed in without ever signing in at the reception desk as they say is their procedure and there are no security cameras in the facility. We do intend to contact an attorney who specializes in this sort of thing, though we understand they are incredibly expensive. |
|
|
 |
 Maggette
|
|
| Total Posts: 590 |
| Joined: Jun 2007 |
| |
|
"He somehow met a 41-year-old woman - he does not remember where he met her"....that is really the interesting part. I mean, they ( the ring that preys on the elderly) need to get the information. For a tactic like that you realy have to know your victim. So where did she get the information that your father in law may be a profitable target? I think most guys in his retirment community are not such profitable targets? So why him? I think you should have a closer look at the retirment community personal... sorry to hear that....I hope he has some money left to enjoy his retirement
|
Ich kam hierher und sah dich und deine Leute lächeln,
und sagte mir: Maggette, scheiss auf den small talk,
lass lieber deine Fäuste sprechen...
|
|
|
 |
 Babs
|
| Certified Headhunter |
| Total Posts: 101 |
| Joined: Sep 2007 |
| |
|
| The retirement community has minimum income or net worth requirements, and my hunch is that most new residents have probably just sold their homes and are sitting on a pile of cash. Plus, it is located in a very affluent area. The personnel at the community have been very guarded in their responses to the police, so you may be right about their being an inside connection. Thanks for pointing that possibility out. |
|
|
 |
|
Terrible to hear this. There really people out there that are just indescribably bad human beings.
I'd agree with other people that the bank/retirement home is where you are going to get your recovery from. I also agree with you that to pursue it could be incredibly expensive. There was a story a while back here. It's the story of a woman who had her safe deposit box cleaned out by a casual acquiantance and the Police and Bank Response. I don't have any updates but it may give you an idea of some of the perils and pitfalls of pursuing this.
I'd also work on the auto dealers that sold the cars. It's a stretch but they have been getting a ton of heat for selling cars to seniors that can't drive. The website that I've referred you to in the link is really good on this kind of story, they probably can't help you resolve it but they do get a lot of publicity (and have a writing style that is makes casualy readers want to get out the pitchforks and nooses for the perpetrators).
|
Late Nineties Bedroom Rock for the Missionaries |
|
|
 |
 FDAXHunter
|
| Founding Member |
| Total Posts: 7526 |
| Joined: Mar 2004 |
| |
|
Sorry to hear this Babs. Bring out the lynch mobs again, I say. |
On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On en tue des millions, on est un conquérant. On les tue tous, on est Dieu. |
|
 |
 Babs
|
| Certified Headhunter |
| Total Posts: 101 |
| Joined: Sep 2007 |
| |
|
The dealership that sold my father-in-law the Corvette is family owned and has been in business in a relatively small community for 50 years. They said they would do anything they could to help, but unfortunately, they had my father-in-law come in and asked him if he understood that the title was going to be in someone else's name. I spoke with them less than 48 hours after he bought the car and it appears they did make an effort to make sure he knew what he was doing. My father-in-law of course has no recollection at all of any part of the process.
Thanks for the website. It is incredible what these people can get away with. |
|
|
|
 |
 polysena
|
|
| Total Posts: 577 |
| Joined: Nov 2007 |
| |
|
Babs, about the "no recollection"...
it could be something of the family of club drugs (GHB etc) that make the person fully passive... but then he would have been repeatedly drugged can that be tested? it could also be (the case with the (elderly) person I mentioned) that good education, conservatism etc.. brings them to feel so bad, so ashamed about what they "agreed" to that they "don't recall"...
|
Polysena and the world of finance (=B):
Polysena is out for a walk. She comes to a river and sees B on the opposite bank. 'Yoo-hoo!' she shouts, 'How can I get to the other side?'
B looks up the river then down the river and shouts back, 'You ARE on the other side.'
|
|
 |
 jslade
|
|
| Total Posts: 401 |
| Joined: Feb 2007 |
| |
|
I don't know how useful this information is, but you can test for GHB in hair samples for quite a while after the dosing takes place. If your father in law was drugged, that's what was probably used. Maybe a positive result could interest the DA in a criminal prosecution.
Real sorry this happened to your family. There are some monsters out there.
Edit Add: these two companies do GHB hair tests. They're expensive, but they'll detect stuff for some time (months) after exposure:
http://www.thecarlsoncompany.net/datedrugs.html
http://www.toxassociates.com/hair.htm |
"Learning, n. The kind of ignorance distinguishing the studious." |
|
|
 |
 Babs
|
| Certified Headhunter |
| Total Posts: 101 |
| Joined: Sep 2007 |
| |
|
| He does remember some of the purchases - the Audi - and recalls writing the $150,000 check for the woman's "daughter's" schooling - must be on heck of a school, since the kid is only 9 years old! And now that I t hink about it, those two incidents occured very early in the scam. We are checking on drugs showing up in tests, but the doctor's initial reponse was that it would be out of his blood stream in 24-36 hours. |
|
|
 |
 Babs
|
| Certified Headhunter |
| Total Posts: 101 |
| Joined: Sep 2007 |
| |
|
| Thanks for everyone's sympathy - hard to believe there is so much real evil. |
|
|
|
 |
 sfca
|
|
| Total Posts: 703 |
| Joined: May 2004 |
| |
|
I'm not sure which approach would work best, but the first I can think of is to ask whether a legally required SAR (suspicious activity report) was done given the transactions went from minimal to the hundreds of thousands of dollars. You'll see it mentioned at the federal reserve site and other places. I really can't post our internal docs on this, but the section I read just now covers what you descibe very similarly. We are supposed to know our customers and be able to understand what is usual activity. Your father's own banker pointed this out to you. She was legally required, I believe, to have filed a SAR. |
|
|
 |
 sfca
|
|
| Total Posts: 703 |
| Joined: May 2004 |
| |
|
See example #3 in the attached. Per your description, you may be able to show they were negligent and may be financially responsible to some extent because they did not do their jobs.
SAR |
|
|
|
 |
 Babs
|
| Certified Headhunter |
| Total Posts: 101 |
| Joined: Sep 2007 |
| |
|
| Great information - thanks. I will follow up on it. |
|
|
 |
|
| A federal gift tax may apply, and I would think the slime balls wouldn't have paid anything. Maybe try a tax evasion angle and unleash the IRS on them? |
|
|
|
 |
 Babs
|
| Certified Headhunter |
| Total Posts: 101 |
| Joined: Sep 2007 |
| |
|
| Great minds think alike - my plan of last resort is to report this stuff as gifts to the IRS and at least make them pay somebody! |
|
|
 |
|
That's brilliant. Wow.
[edit: you may want to put them in a little later to let the evasion angle play out]
|
Late Nineties Bedroom Rock for the Missionaries |
|
|
 |
|
Email if you need an accountant in Chicago to help out. I know someone who is good with estate issues, and they may be able to provide more details for you on the tax aspects.
With the IRS thing, I would think that their entire history of doing this could be brought under the microscope. Maybe a criminal conviction could come out of it for tax evasion, which then lends credibility to any fraud charges. Are there any lawyers here who could suggest anything?
Edit: If they crossed state lines as part of doing all this, such as taking the cars to Indiana to sell them, then it becomes a federal crime and the FBI can look at it. |
|
|
 |
|
"A federal gift tax may apply, and I would think the slime balls wouldn't have paid anything. Maybe try a tax evasion angle and unleash the IRS on them?"
My impression is that, in the US, the person giving the gift pays the tax. If I remember correctly there is an annual and a lifetime limit. |
|
|
|
 |
 Babs
|
| Certified Headhunter |
| Total Posts: 101 |
| Joined: Sep 2007 |
| |
|
"My impression is that, in the US, the person giving the gift pays the tax. If I remember correctly there is an annual and a lifetime limit. "
You are right about that. I misspoke - I believe they would owe income tax on the ill-gotten gains. Isn't that what they got Al Capone on?
An interesting development - the male member of the evil duo has returned to the Audi dealership and is pricing out new Audis. They must have their next victim in their sights. |
|
|
 |
|
| I have no idea how overburdened the police department in your Father-in-law's town is but maybe they should keep an eye on these jackasses. Chances are if they brought your him in drugged up they'd bring their next victim in. Maybe I watch too many cop shows on TV but maybe a sting could be set up. |
Late Nineties Bedroom Rock for the Missionaries |
|
|
 |
|
Get a private investigator, find out who all the other victims are, share the costs, and nail them. Maybe there is a money laundering thing here too to hit them with? |
|
|
 |
 Babs
|
| Certified Headhunter |
| Total Posts: 101 |
| Joined: Sep 2007 |
| |
|
| They have about four detectives working full time on this - I am amazed at the resources they have thrown at it. I do think they are planning a sting operation and are also trying to get the woman to pay another visit to my father-in-law so they can perhaps grab her there. I am sure they will lose interest if they don't make progress soon, but at the moment I can't complain about the way they are handling the case. |
|
|
|
 |