rickyvic
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| Total Posts: 145 |
| Joined: Jul 2013 |
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Anybody knows about g10 cash government bond electronic venues, which ones are good, bad, etc.
I heard bbg has a lot of volume and should offer api.
Any pointers?
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"amicus Plato sed magis amica Veritas" |
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steevo
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| Total Posts: 9 |
| Joined: Feb 2019 |
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| TMC Bonds and BondPoint (both acquired by ICE and still in the integration stage) are the best platforms for this. BondPoint is an aggregation platform acting as a middleman between small trading entities and the main liquidity providers (mostly investment banks) for OTC products. They are not full service brokers...you would still need to find a clearing firm (many smaller clearing firms and RIAs use BondPoint as their fixed income execution platform and white label it) (if you are over 3mm AUM, i think interactive brokers has IB Prime which should be able to integrate with BondPoint....execute with BondPoint and clear at IB). if you have enough AUM (50mm+), then you would just prime broker with a firm that has decent pricing and just use their trading desk for simplicity. |
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TonyC
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| Nuclear Energy Trader |
| Total Posts: 1287 |
| Joined: May 2004 |
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| OpenDoor Trading is a platform specializing in off the run Treasuries, decent api and volumes |
flaneur/boulevardier/remittance man/energy trader |
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rickyvic
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| Total Posts: 145 |
| Joined: Jul 2013 |
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Thanks steevo much appreciated, I figured most have been acquired by ICE and Euronext. Although a lot of the business happens on bbg some told me, so I was curious....
I have a prime of prime arrangement, around 10 mln initially.
I am not sure I understand the last paragraph, if I just trade against a desk that pools liquidity I will pay fees and be exposed to them only (they will price whatever they want) not ideal especially if size grows.
Apart from ways to arrange lines and so on I was mainly interested in where most trades happen, like a ranking by volumes, obviously having an anonymous orderbook would be an advantage but I could mix rfq with order book dealing.
@tonyc interesting thanks
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"amicus Plato sed magis amica Veritas" |
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rickyvic
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| Total Posts: 145 |
| Joined: Jul 2013 |
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| Interesting thanks |
"amicus Plato sed magis amica Veritas" |
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prikolno
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| I'm guessing NEX (BrokerTec), NASDAQ (former eSpeed), Tradeweb, then Fenics UST? |
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rickyvic
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| Total Posts: 145 |
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What about European government bonds? I am trying to cover G10 as much as possible, looking at the futures market it should be possible to do US, EU (France, Italy, Germany), UK, Australia (possibly).
Tradeweb covers all not sure if liquidity is that great for all of them, will check.
I think for US treasuries we covered most of the liquidity with the ones mentioned.
One more question, when you borrow a bond through a PB, does the PB charge a rate that he wants or can one deal directly with a repo desk. My guess is that by default the repo desk you face is the PB's automatically.
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"amicus Plato sed magis amica Veritas" |
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Kitno
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| Total Posts: 356 |
| Joined: Mar 2005 |
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| And MTS for European govies. |
Salut toi, je vais au Social Club avec des amis ce soir, c'est au 142 rue Montmartre. J'ai mis ta robe préférée. Viens me trouver. |
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rickyvic
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I am worried about the fees these platforms charge.... I looked at publicly available fee schedules and some are scary like 5 bucks per bond traded.
Bondesk I guess wants to get paid for the retail flow... |
"amicus Plato sed magis amica Veritas" |
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rickyvic
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| Total Posts: 145 |
| Joined: Jul 2013 |
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Now the big question is how to source historical data from one of these venues.... Data request?? ;-)
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"amicus Plato sed magis amica Veritas" |
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Kitno
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| Total Posts: 356 |
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rickyvic: I looked at publicly available fee schedules and some are scary like 5 bucks per bond traded.
Can you share these? It doesn't make sense. I haven't looked at fee schedules in a few years but rates/govies cash trading is usually quoted in X cents, where 1 cent is $100 per $1MM (sometimes called bps in cash govie land instead of cents, as opposed to credit land where bps are basis points running in a yield metric). |
Salut toi, je vais au Social Club avec des amis ce soir, c'est au 142 rue Montmartre. J'ai mis ta robe préférée. Viens me trouver. |
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rickyvic
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Taken from Interactive brokers only one publishing it, so I am guessing dealing thorough a PB or talking to the platform with a certain volume might make a difference.
This info might even be wrong and they charge while they should really not.
I will go to each platform website to check, not going to my PB yet because they might behave like IB who knows.
NYSE Bond Fees
Description Add Liquidity 1 Remove Liquidity 2
1 to 10 bonds 0 USD 0.50 per bond
11 to 25 bonds 0 USD 0.20 per bond
> 25 bonds 0 USD 0.10 per bond
BondDesk Fees
Description Add Liquidity 1 Remove Liquidity 2
Agencies
12 - 24 months to maturity USD 0.25 per bond USD 5 per trade
> 24 months to maturity USD 0.50 per bond USD 5 per trade
Treasuries
12 - 24 months to maturity USD 0.15 per bond USD 5 per trade
> 24 months to maturity USD 0.25 per bond USD 5 per trade
T-bills USD 2.50 per trade USD 5 per trade
Euronext Bonds External Fees
Exchange Fee
Trade Value Fee Minimum
All Bonds 1 0.0425% * Trade Value EUR 2.00 per Order
Clearing Fee
Product Group Fee
All EUR 0.10 per trade
Notes:
Settlement fees are currently set at 0.00; however this is subject to change.
Quoting surcharge determined at end of day for customers whose order/trade ratio exceeds 5:1. Only new orders and modifications but not order cancels will count in the ratio.
For example: 4 orders, each modified once, resulting in 1 execution total -> charge of EUR 6 (3*2 EUR).
IB calculates external fees based on trade value. Trade value is defined as Nominal*PriceInPercent/100. |
"amicus Plato sed magis amica Veritas" |
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rickyvic
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| Total Posts: 145 |
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NYSE is free and you get rebates to provide liquidity
https://www.nyse.com/markets/bonds/trading-info
however there is a 3k per month fee for first connection (1000 msgs per sec).
Bonddesk is now tradeweb I had troubles finding the schedule of fees.
Euronext
https://www.euronext.com/sites/www.euronext.com/files/euronext_cash_markets_trading_fee_guide__effective_04february2019.pdf
2.5 BONDS
The fee policy for Bonds, including Short-Term Debt Securities, is as follows:
2.5.1 Order fee
A fixed fee per order is charged for members with an order/trade ratio above five.
In addition to the order/trade ratio, a fixed fee of €2 per order is charged for members sending orders with
a nominal size below €40 000 flagged under “House” account type, on bonds traded in a Continuous
trading mode.
2.5.2 Trade fee
Bond trades are charged as a percentage of the net amount per daily executed order (please note that an
order executed in two or more trades on the same day represents one executed order). The monthly
turnover will also be taken into account to determine the fee structure to be applied.
FEE STRUCTURE FOR BONDS TRADED ON EURONEXT’S REGULATED MARKETS
ORDER FEE – PER DAILY EXECUTED ORDER
Order / trade ratio ≤5 >5
Applicable fee per order No charge €2 (fixed fee)
TRADE FEE – PER DAILY EXECUTED ORDER
Monthly Turnover in m€ Charge on turnover Minimum fee per executed
order
Bracket 1 <= 10 4.25 bps €2
Bracket 2 >10 - <= 20 3.50 bps €1.50
Bracket 3 >20 - <= 40 1.35 bps €1.05
Bracket 4 > 40 1.30 bps €1.05
Bond trades are charged according to the corresponding bracket. If an executed order falls in between the
brackets, the lower bracket fees will be applicable.
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"amicus Plato sed magis amica Veritas" |
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