Not without pain I have been watching what was happening in the Career Section lately. I decided to share some of my knowledge with people who try to break into the industry and all the newbie’s who join this forum by answering some of the FAQ’s (I took a sick day today ). Hope more senior people will share some of their experience too. So to start the ball rolling…

 What is the necessary preparation for hard core PhDs or Fin Math Master’s students?

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The best preparation: read DW’s guides on this forum, read the Career Section here and the old posts (before 2004) in the Career section on W****tt.

In terms of actual preparation I’d read: Hull; Baxter & Rennie; “Heard on the Street” by T. Crack and "How Would You Move a Mount Fuji" book along with some of the problems on  riddle's website and W****tt Brainteaser forum. Maybe some of the notes on NYU Fin Math website.

You’ll be asked basic fin math questions and brainteasers. I personally don’t understand why people ask brainteasers since it only separates those people who have seen some particular one before from those who didn’t... but they do get asked…

You need to learn some C++ for quant roles. To start I’d recommend “Thinking in C++” by B. Eckel, “Teach Yorself C++ in 21 days”  by Jesse Liberty and Joshi’s book on C++. Just read some chapters there which you can understand and play with the code to start with…

 What’s the best way to look for the entry level job?

If you’re master’s student I think the best way is through the Alumni’s networks, Career Office for Fin Math programs (at Columbia, NYU or other good schools if you're a student there in the US or corresponding schools in Britain if you are a student there) and through the friends working in the industry. If you’re fresh PhD with no contacts then Bloomberg (JOBS<GO>) should be your choice. Bloomberg terminals are available in some schools and public libraries (in NYC it’s in the NYPL on Madison and 33rd). HH’s should be your last choice, since they almost don’t have entry level jobs, but talk to them too anyway…

 Can anybody recommend me a good HH? HH didn’t get back to me what should I do?

HH’s are as good as the jobs they currently have. If they don’t have any openings for you they won’t get back to you. They make money by placing people, if they think you’re employable they may spend time talking to you if not…well, you can guess…There's no point in contacting them more than once. I usually keep a database of whom I've contacted.

I tried most of the job sites, but never got responses from anywhere but Bloomberg. The difference between Bloomberg and other sources is that about 5% of jobs there are posted by actual employers and HR people and 95% by HHs, on other sites 100% are by HHs…

 How many HHs should I contact?

I’d say contact 5 the first week you are on the job market. If nobody responds try another 5 the next week, etc. You’re playing the number game here…The only downside is that some of the HHs send out your CV around without your consent and if your CV gets on the same hiring manager’s desk sent by 2 or more different HH’s it may get trashed due to the conflict of interest. But that the chance you take, better than being unemployed…

The only thing I'd warn about is never apply for a job on the bank’s website. If you get into their HR database your name will be there for a long time and no HH will be able to help you. You can apply under a slightly different name though (change a letter or two). The only interview I’ve got this way was from GS, but try for yourself if you have time to waist

During my first job search I sent out about 200 copies of my resume got about 10 interviews (2 of them onsite the rest were over the phone), and have got a job in the start up hedge fund. I lost it in 7 months (I spent about 4 month job hunting for it).

During my 2nd job search I sent out over 250 copies of my resume, spoke to about 50-60 HHs and have got close to 5-6 interviews. I’ve interviewed with the place I’ve got a job at for 10 weeks (about 5-6 interviews with different people spread over this period). I spent close to 3 months on the market before getting a job for the second time…

To be continued….

Ok, so I might be an exception but I applied for my first job on Monster and got an interview, then landed the job.  My current job, I found the HH that had a role which I was looking for.

I do agree that if someone don't call you back you should continue on with your daily routine.  Asking why don't they call back to a bunch of strangers on an internet forum is a bit pathetic.  If it was a job you really wanted, you would have called them.  If they didn't like you, ask for reasons to improve yourself so when the next ideal job comes along you don't screw up again.

How are you liking the new job Drews?

hi mason,

might help a little if you could mention a bit about why you want to go work on wall street, and any particular areas you are interested in.

also, are you a mathematical person ? only, international business sounds a little more like corporate finance to me, with my limited knowledge of the US system.

EDIT: oh, I see you answered most of this stuff on this thread
http://www.nuclearphynance.com/Show%20Post.aspx?PostIDKey=74061

A few things:

Take a look at the job description.

They want C++, time series analysis, statistical software usage (I personally don't think Matlab is a statistical package).  Personally, I don't think International Business will teach you C++, time series analysis, or require the use of R/S-plus and Matlab. 

Second, you said you like Math but taking International Business because you don't care where you want to work in the world???  This doesn't make sense to me.  Working anywhere in the world does not take International Business knowledge but rather, the actual language of the country you want to move to.  If you like math, major in math.  If you like finance, major in finance.  If you like math and finance, major and minor in either.  This isn't rocket science... Go to school to learn something you want to learn.

Third, you do not need to write politically correct statements here.  I don't want to hear about how "you love making money" and a few paragraphs down you write "it's not the money thats important either".  And in the other thread, you mention you like equity and equity options.  Now you also throw in commods and currencies when you stated you did not know anything about currencies yet?  Please make up your mind...

Fourth, all UC besides Berkeley is on a quarter system.  So going to Cal State for their quarter system doesn't make sense.  Going on a quarter system DOES NOT mean you finish faster either.  You maybe severly misinformed or just BS-ing around.  If the latter, please be a little more truthful when asking for help.

Fifth, there are many threads that talked about PhDs.  Use the search function.  Otherwise, the general consensus is do a PhD only because you love the field not because you want to trade or work on Wall street later.

Lastly, as Jungle pointed out, a lot of the quantitative master degrees in financial math/engr requires a quantitative undergraduate degree.  They are not going to hold your hand and teach you how to program in C++, Matlab, or even basic probability theory when you start your masters.

Tabris:

I said i thought about taking international business because i wasn't sure whether or not my undergrad mattered if i am going to be getting my grad in quant/fin or fin/eng. That's the whole reason I am here. To ask questions, learn and get guidance on which direction I should go, preferrably the direction with the least resistance. After getting Jungle's input, i've learned that it will probably be best if i get my undergrad in Math. Not a problem, since I think a math degree is much more versatile and can do more for me than a business degree.

Sidenote* Since I already speak 2 languages fluently and have 3 years of German in HS, i'd maybe even push it to three languages, so i don't think i'll have a problem learning a new language if i ever decide to go abroad.

I have been out of school and working for about 8 years so it's been a while and i have spent a lot of years trying to figure out what I want to do. I've finally figured it out. Again, that's why I'm here asking questions to get guidance and "counseling."

I have only traded equities for 6 months, options for 2. I like them both because it's what i learned first. I WANT to learn about commodities, currencies and since apine said i should learn bonds and FI because of their relevance in equities/options, i have thought altered my thinking in that matter as well. I'm a very versatile person and learn very quickly. I just don't have a clue about where to start, what program to enter.

Regarding quarter systems, the class duration is much shorter. You may not finish the degree sooner but the length of the class is shorter. 10 weeks and you have one class out of the way. For an undergrad degree, i'll take it, and with that intensity retain it longer as well. Besides, Berkeley's application deadline was 2 months ago and i don't want to wait another year to get back into school. I'm almost 30 years old and i don't want to spend another 10 years in school. I will worry about the real degree, the masters when I get to it.

I'm here to get any and all help and direction I can.

And to Sammus, if u mean being a good interviewer? Well, yea, i've had a few jobs and been working for a while now so i'd say i'm pretty good at that. I'm hands on. I like to learn by doing.

Unfortunately, this doesn't help you when you want a career change.

"I'm almost 30 years old "

You may have left it too late. By the time you've finished your undergrad + masters you will be older than many of the people running trading desks. Perhaps there's a different route that will take you more directly where you want to go?