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lembeh


Total Posts: 10
Joined: Feb 2007
 
Posted: 2007-02-16 02:35
I have a non quant background (BS in Finance from a top 10 school) but am very interested in pursuing a Quant Finance MS. I am thinking of enrolling in some classes at a local university to take some Math/Stat classes. My goal is to be on a trading desk post MS. Having talked to a lot of people at work it seems like opinions on if I should take classes in Math or Stats seem equally divided. Which is a better background to have if one wants to pursue a MS in Quant Finance and eventually move to a desk? Math or Stats?

chiral3
Founding Member

Total Posts: 4345
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2007-02-16 02:38
applied math.  take a couple of stats courses.

What do you mean by **drag** the range"? If you just mean expand the column width, that doesn't work. NUM!

nuno


Total Posts: 267
Joined: Jul 2006
 
Posted: 2007-02-16 05:34
really? what, like numerical solution of PDEs?


Graeme


Total Posts: 1491
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2007-02-16 09:01

Having a PhD in mathematics, I can assure you that post-graduate studies in pure mathematics will be of no use whatsoever. The pure maths one gets to use are 1-3 below. The more of 4-8 you have going in to a M in QF the better.

  1. calculus
  2. linear algebra
  3. DEs
  4. linear algebra - the type that is more typically taught in an applied than pure area: algorithms in the factorisation space (numerical e-vector e-value extraction, LU, etc. etc.)
  5. numerical solution of PDEs
  6. basic statistics - regression and what not
  7. statistical distributions, but just basic distributions at a fairly technical level e.g. can I work out the kurtosis of a variable assuming such and such a distribution with such and such a parameter set.
  8. Some knowledge of a programming language, such at matlab or c something.

Graeme West

tristanreid


Total Posts: 1607
Joined: Aug 2005
 
Posted: 2007-02-20 20:15

Graeme, this is a great list. 

-t.


Any advertisement in public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. It belongs to you. It's yours to take, re-arrange, and re-use. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head. -Banksy, street artist (b. 1974)

lembeh


Total Posts: 10
Joined: Feb 2007
 
Posted: 2007-02-20 20:27

Graeme thanks for your helpful input.

 


DrQuant


Total Posts: 34
Joined: Feb 2007
 
Posted: 2007-02-28 23:27

Applied maths is better for quant finance.  But for trading, particularly vanilla trading, there's a case for stats, to help with identifying patterns under noise and uncertainty.  Plus stats is a rare skill in finance since exotics modeling is considered sexier.

Of course, in an ideal world you wouldn't make it either/or, but would do as much as posible of both.


redros


Total Posts: 4
Joined: Oct 2006
 
Posted: 2007-03-07 02:08
I'm doing the MA in Math Fin at Columbia. i couldn't agree more on Graeme's list. Sharp. I would put statistics at # 2 though, and not so basic. But still, great advice! I wish all the so called professors or experienced people on the field were so precise.

Graeme


Total Posts: 1491
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2007-03-07 10:34

The list wasn't supposed to be ordered in any way....

I guess in some specialisations the stats would be far more important. But that wasn't supposed to be my point - the list was supposed to be what would be helpful as a priori knowledge for formal study (and not an opinin on what aspects of formal study are relevant and which not). For example, if you have my 6. then you cover CAP-M in your studies while watching the game on the box, if not, it could take you weeks.

Once you are working things might move around significantly. If you are in any sort of data mining area I guess the stats would become crucial. In other areas most stats might be irrelevant.


Graeme West

cpptrader


Total Posts: 73
Joined: Feb 2007
 
Posted: 2007-03-07 18:52
Thanks for the list Graeme.  It is along the lines with what I am reviewing and I'm glad to see I'm on the right track.  Time to brush the dust off of my old calc books.

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. -Bertrand Russell

tripitaka


Total Posts: 958
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2007-03-07 19:10
Of course, if you really want to get ahead in the derivatives markets, you really need to focus more on Middle Eastern Filosophy and History, the better to mock others' epistemic arrogance.

mj


Total Posts: 917
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2007-03-08 00:04
if you want to do pure maths, take courses in probability theory and stochastic calculus. These will be of use. (and are nice and hard so you'll get plenty of intellectual stimulation!)

ClopeMan


Total Posts: 305
Joined: Jan 2007
 
Posted: 2007-03-08 17:44
mj, do u think pure math could be relevant? seems like a "nice and hard" detour to me...

twisted objective mind

flyjohn


Total Posts: 13
Joined: Dec 2006
 
Posted: 2007-03-30 06:23

Good list.

I wish i knew the list when I was studying Financial math.

btw 3. DEs means SDE/PDE or diffusion equations? also I think for 5. numerical PDE you want to focus on FDM instead of FEM.


Nonius
Founding Member
Nonius Unbound
Total Posts: 10185
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2007-03-30 06:24

mj, do u think pure math could be relevant?

not directly relevant, but relevant to the extent that it is mental weightlifting.  is it relevant to pump iron if you want to play football? 

by the way, I've been noticing that a lot of global macro guys have studied philosophy.  of course, to be a successful global macro trader it is relevant that the degree is from Harvard, Yale, or Princeton.


No more Mr. Nice Guy. Angry

mj


Total Posts: 917
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2007-03-30 08:49
Probability theory and stochastic calculus are directly relevant. Some might say they weren't pure maths...

I've certainly used plenty of techniques i learnt doing pure maths in quant work. Eg my latest paper on binomial trees used very similar skills to my pure maths research.


ClopeMan


Total Posts: 305
Joined: Jan 2007
 
Posted: 2007-03-30 16:14

Yeah, cool then. But still, my 2-pesos impression is that the more time one put on thinking about commutative diagrams, schemes, varifolds, semimartingales and all the fancy-shmancy stuff of "higher" pure math, the less he is likely to feel comfortable with "dirty" computational issues (which constitute 99.99% of applicable math, i guess).  I do not contest the great mental fitness exercise of these studies, obviously.

Anyway, interesting considerations...


twisted objective mind

IAmEric
Phorgy Phynance
Banned
Total Posts: 2961
Joined: Oct 2004
 
Posted: 2007-03-30 16:21
SamyBoy, I think the NP members here provide ample evidence to the contrary (although the sample is obviously skewed) Beer

Finn Mac Cool


Total Posts: 205
Joined: Jan 2005
 
Posted: 2007-03-30 22:09

> Good list.

> I wish i knew the list when I was studying Financial math.

> ... also I think for 5. numerical PDE you want to focus on FDM instead of FEM.

Yes, Finite Element Method (FEM) is a sledge hammer for finance problems for a number of reasons. It was created by Courant/Synge for structural time-independent problems with complicated geometry. FEM can be applied to parabolic problems but is no added value.

With FEM, it is useful to know Hilbert and Sobolev spaces. 

A useful application of FEM is modelling black-body radiation problem in an irregularly shaped cathode ray tube with Boltzmann radiation boundary conditions. It is a heat equation.

For fluid dynamics, FVM and FDM are more usual.

The theory behind FEM is beautiful but go for FDM in this case.  FEM is a kind of applied Functional Analysis.

A hybrid model in finance I have seen is the PIDE jump models where FDM was used for the PDE part and FEM for the integral (non-local) part by using the Galerkin method. That was a spark of genius by the guy who did it.

 


meeneah


Total Posts: 36
Joined: Nov 2006
 
Posted: 2007-03-31 22:26
> of course, to be a successful global macro trader it is relevant that the degree is from Harvard, Yale, > or Princeton.

Interesting... What makes you say that/why do you think that is?

Kutilya
Quote Machine

Total Posts: 1200
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2007-03-31 22:58


>>by the way, I've been noticing that a lot of global macro guys have studied philosophy.



Actually a lot portfolio managers study philosophy, but macro guys more rightly so…I’ll let the really qualified people talk about it though…



~ ~ ~ _o ~ ~ ~ _ <_ (_) (_)

ElGreco
Banned

Total Posts: 15
Joined: May 2007
 
Posted: 2007-05-23 01:00

hey lembeh

have u decided which course ur taking?

let me know, i'm thinking along the same lines


Dave


Total Posts: 200
Joined: May 2006
 
Posted: 2007-05-23 04:36
"nice and hard" - MJ

No such thing. I've found things to be either nice or hard, but certainly not both.

Wink

mj


Total Posts: 917
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2007-05-23 05:16
the ability to find things "nice and hard" is what makes a good researcher

Dave


Total Posts: 200
Joined: May 2006
 
Posted: 2007-05-23 05:25
There's a lot to be said for a wink
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